HFX Forum

Operating Systems => Mac OS => Topic started by: benthehutt on March 30, 2005, 05:26:54 PM

Title: Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on March 30, 2005, 05:26:54 PM
Does anyone know anything about OSX?  Actually, I mean does anyone use it?  I'm thinking about buying a mac so I can learn about 'em.  I was just wondering if anyone was a fan...

If you're a OS or "PC v. Mac" bigot, please do not respond--I hate you. ;D
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: godaigo on March 31, 2005, 04:11:02 PM
My girlfriend runs OSX on her extremely expensive and very nice mac, it seems to be pretty cool. It's not that hard to get to the command line and you can use it for a lot of cool things straight out of the box. I've heard some horror stories about getting most open source software running though, something about the dependencies, but I haven't tried myself. Let us know if you give it a try!
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Uneek on April 05, 2005, 12:56:03 PM
We will be demo'ing Mac's here pretty soon... I actually want a Mac Lappy... OSX is based on the BSD kernel and natively can do a ishload! OSX is pretty cool... I know Taz feels the same way... still got that sweet lappy, Taz?
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on April 05, 2005, 05:05:16 PM
BSD!!  That's everyone's favorite, so it must be good!

I've only used RedHat 8, which I love....(*swoon*) ::)
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on April 05, 2005, 05:07:10 PM
Yes, Metgod, I know Linux and Unix are different.  But they're alike in many a way, so you don't need to go off on your "Unix isn't Linux" extravaganza.

just thought I should clear that up... ;)
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Metgod on April 06, 2005, 11:18:31 AM

no problem

I was actually meaning to reply to this post but forgot.

I actually think that Macs are good for things like graphics etc (over PCs). But again I think it's a matter of what works for you. So, you won't hear me being a bigot about this one (although I must sadly say I used to). But my step mother uses a mac and she's an artist and she loves it. So I guess it just depends on what you need.

I personally would like to (at times) have a GUI for unix or linux, but unfortunately, with only one monitor, I dedicate it to my win box (then switch the monitor with a data switch when I have to do maintanence and can't remotely connect).

So I'd be interested to see what you think of OSX.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on April 06, 2005, 12:01:50 PM
Do you know anything about mac hardware (other than it's horribly expensive)?  Right now I'm looking into a new G4 Mini.

I guess what I really mean is do you know anything about computers apple makes, since I don't really have a choice of customizing the hardware in a particular machine.

Dirty Apple......wants money for all their stuff....grrrr...... >:(
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Metgod on April 06, 2005, 03:54:19 PM
Wish I did.. Uneek might ? not sure though
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: godaigo on April 06, 2005, 05:31:08 PM
Well I know that the architecture is different RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computer) I believe. Also I think that before all of Apple's hardware used to be SCSI which was why it was so expensive, but with the newer boxes they've gone to the less expensive regular IDE's (I think?) but again I've basically only read about them, not really worked with them. I think that if you googled mac mods or something it would probably give you a good overview of what you could do with the hardware.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Tazinator on April 06, 2005, 05:45:00 PM
I use/support/program for OS X. I had to learn Mac's at my old job and ended up buying one as a secondary machine at home. And Mac's arent primarily SCSI or RISC anymore, that was olden days (90's). What questions did you have?

The XServe's are "schweet" servers. Got to set a few of those up at my old job too.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on April 06, 2005, 06:24:31 PM
I'm looking at getting just some cool "desktop" with OSX, not a server or anything...

Anyway, I'm just wondering if the apple systems are actually different or better, or are they just in different cases?  Like does a mac mini have the same hardware (different size) as a cube or imac or emac?

I'm looking at a mini right now--they seem cheaper on average than the other boxes.

Also, I was wondering if you can actually "customize" harware on mac systems.  I know you can't really upgrade and whatnot like a pc, but can you really do anything to mac harware?  (Eg.- overclock, buy some other companies hardware, etc.)

Any help would be cool.... ;D
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Tazinator on April 08, 2005, 11:13:59 PM
Well, in regards to reliability, Apple's are very high. Thats mainly because they control tightly hardware and software certification. Thats not to say you cant sabotage the stability of the system by installing grassroots apps and all, but overall, its nice and stable.

Word of warning tho, when OSX goes down, it goes down hard. Intricate knowledge of BSD or Macs arent usually enough to save you. hehe. I have had to help pull many a dying Mac from the brink from very Mac and OSX saavy people. A good understanding of BSD will help you out a lot in customizing the system more so then just what the GUI will allow you and help in many bad situations you may land in.

Upgradability, the Mini's from what I have seen there isnt a whole lot you can upgrade simply because theres no room. The G4 and G5 towers tho, you can upgrade damn near everything and install a slew of add-ons. The self contained systems (Imac, Emac, Mac Mini) theres not a lot outside of HDD, Memory and sometimes *-ROM drives that you can upgrade only because they are designed that way.

Its a "different" type of machine, not nessisarily better or worse although it may exceed windows or linux in some areas, it is beaten in others. Id say it makes for a solid OS foundation with a simplistic but flashy and customizable GUI. Unlike Windows which seems to have a more complicated GUI with every new version.

Also, in regards to security, Apple is being heavily critisized for downplaying a lot of its vulnerabilities to its users and being slow to patch. They are often not forthcoming about how bad the holes really are when you go to update. Good example is when they had a big hole in Quicktime that allowed code execution and called the update a "performance enhancement" to thier users. Just an FYI.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on April 10, 2005, 07:02:46 PM
Thanks alot for the info!  I think I'll proabably get a mini g4 cause they're pretty cheap (a tower costs a buttload).

Also, is it true that Mac OS is somehow integrated with the BIOS and harware--like way more than a PC?  I heard that somewhere...
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Tazinator on April 12, 2005, 04:21:42 PM
What you heard is somewhat true. Since Apple only makes a few types of machines and all their mother / daughter boards are pretty much the same, they can write better calls to the IO subsystem is all. Windows and Linux kinda need to be a little more generic in that respect as they dont always know what they will be running on. Thats the benefit of controlling the hardware and OS distribution.

They are trying to achieve the same thing with NetBSD. They have a version for damn near any hardware platform.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on April 12, 2005, 08:05:30 PM
Do you know if there are any open source mac OSes?  Has anyone ever tryed it or is it illegal?
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: godaigo on April 13, 2005, 06:13:19 PM
I believe that YellowDog Linux was developed for the mac. I think you can find it at distrowatch.org (I think that's the right address anyway). There may be some others as well.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Tazinator on April 14, 2005, 02:23:28 PM
Yup, YellowDog. Never tried it but heard good things about it. I believe NetBSD has a PowerPC kernel as well, not 100% sure tho.

http://www.yellowdoglinux.org/ (for support)
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on April 14, 2005, 05:37:29 PM
Do any of them one up Mac OS, or are they basically same as on a PC?  I don't really know what the point of putting Linux on a Mac would be.  OSX kicks butt I've heard.  There's just something not right about putting a free OS on a $3000 computer...
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Tazinator on April 14, 2005, 10:29:08 PM
Its all a matter of preference. Some people like the look of Mac's and dont like OS X but are used to Linux. Honestly I think OS X is just fine and in many ways a lot better than Linux when it comes to what OS for a Mac. Granted ive not used Yellow Dog, but I know people who do and mostly they have it to play with and learn Linux, not to replace OS X. You gotta keep in mind that OS X is built off BSD so its still BSD under the hood. You can still do 99% of things you could with BSD in OS X via the "Terminal". Hell, for the server, a majority of configuration is command line only, not a whole lot through the GUI. At the seminars on hacking ive spoken at, a couple of times there were some OS X machines and guys running exploits off them. Hell at DC last year we had a girl running a Mac doing a good amount of Offensive work on the team I was on.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: godaigo on April 14, 2005, 11:52:04 PM
Yeah the local LUG here has a couple of guys running OSX laptops and they manage to get everything working fine on there. Although they definately have a lot of experience with Linux in general and so aren't very daunted by potential problems....
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on July 28, 2005, 07:35:49 AM
I finally scraped up enough cash to buy a mac.  It burned a $700 hole in my pocket, but I love it!  It's a mac mini g4 with OSX and it rocks my socks off!  And then on again!

However, everyone says Macs are way more stable than PCs (especially windows), but I can now say, with confidence, that it's a load of crap.  It's already locked up on me like three times this week and it's got a gig of RAM!  I think Win XP (quit booing) has come a long way since the days of Win98 and (*shiver*) ME.

I can safely say that Windows kicks butt for gaming.  Take a look at the Xbox (OS modeled after windows), and even desktops.  Windows PC's kill Macs (and Linux and Unix) for gaming.

Though nothing can match OSX's Unix core (except for Unix...and Linux...).  You can pull up bash in the middle of ripping CD's with iTunes.

That's my two-cents.  A little off topic though.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Tazinator on August 07, 2005, 09:49:56 PM
Gaming-wise its easier to write code for Winblows. With *nix based systems its a bit harder as you never know what Window manager people may be using and 3d drivers can sometimes be a bitch with some cards, plus there are a ton of variants of those drivers. I can speak first hand about the 3d drivers. I had SuSE on a Dell Inspiron with a GeForce Go 5200 and a Thinkpad with the same card. The dell would go into cardiac arrest if I started X with 3d enabled, the Thinkpad works like a champ. Same card, same driver, same OS, etc. Its just much more headache intensive to build a game for *nix. Although you see more and more ported over now that Linux and Mac's have started gaining popularity due to Redmond's lapse in security and support for older PC's.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on August 09, 2005, 07:07:47 AM
That's true, but shouldn't gaming be a ton easier on mac's?  You can't really even get "custom made mac's."  They should be simple to write for because they have that unix core but standardized hardware.  Every mini will have a radeon 9200 and the same sound card.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Tazinator on August 11, 2005, 08:02:54 AM
I believe its aspects of the OS that make it more difficult. I cant honestly say nor do I want to as im not a developer. Only saying what ive been told by other developers ;)
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: wilnix on August 15, 2005, 03:41:00 AM
My new purchase for our department:



Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on August 15, 2005, 11:51:15 AM
Hey, shutup wilnix!  It's people like you that make me jealous of you... ;)
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Tazinator on August 16, 2005, 02:55:08 PM
bastard  >:(
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: wilnix on September 04, 2005, 05:32:52 AM
In that case, be jealous of Uneek too. He has the exact same thing!

 ;D WilMac

Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Metgod on September 04, 2005, 10:43:16 AM
Yeah yeah ... of course he does.. since he works WITH you...

Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Tazinator on September 05, 2005, 12:40:39 AM
Oh Yeah.....well......ummm.....


I shall have a dual G5 for my own home use soon. My day will come!


Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Marcvs on April 11, 2006, 02:22:18 AM
There arnt any open source mac OSX's its only $120 which is much cheaper than windows though, I un it and I have to say im pleased wih i, I have open office and other OpenSOurce stuff running on it in fact im typing this in FireFOx II Alpha now
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Metgod on April 11, 2006, 11:50:41 AM
Yeah, it's cheaper than Windows.. unless you know what OEM means...


Personally though, I would rather use a free unix based OS that has a GUI over one that costs money.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: benthehutt on April 11, 2006, 05:13:46 PM
It's not any cheaper than Windows!  XP Home starts at $100, pro you can get for $120-$200.  OSX is $130.  That's not what I'd call "much cheaper..."  Plus, virtually the only place to find OSX is Apple.com--so good luck finding sweet deals and sales.  
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Metgod on April 11, 2006, 10:49:08 PM
Hrm... I'd agree on every point, but it's not very nice to challenge someone's math skills like that.

Just because you're a math guru, doesn't mean the other person here is! (Oh, and I'm not either). And the fact I haven't challenged his/her English, just proves how much better I am than you! ;D

Ok.. I'll shut up now!

P.S. I love sarcasm.
Title: Re:Mac OSX
Post by: Uneek on April 12, 2006, 04:51:14 PM
It is cheaper when you consider downtime... time is money!!!   ;D