Java VM

Started by benthehutt, March 30, 2005, 05:40:27 PM

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March 30, 2005, 05:40:27 PM
This is kind of an interesting idea (though I don't think it will become popular), but infogrames (the gaming company that owns a buttload of other companies) has started writing a game entirely in Java.  And I don't mean the crappy little applet games or slow puzzle games, I mean a first person shooter modeled after Halo.

They claim that they want to "expand gaming" to easily support all OSes and hardware.  My opinion is that it's a slow piece of crap flop. :P
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
April 01, 2005, 04:49:42 AM #1
I wouldn't say it would be a bad idea..

If i remember the likes of Maya (which is used by development houses for games and movie special effects) is a massive bit of software developed in Java and runs sweet .. even on slightly lower spec machines.

Plus these boys have been doing it a long time, so i would be pretty confident that they can cut down on how resource hungry there code is going to be.

Wouldn't mind seeing this and see how it runs.
I am not suffering with insanity... I am loving every minute of it.
April 01, 2005, 09:55:59 AM #2
Forgot about Maya....you may just be right...

Although, Maya does take forever to render a scene (I know from personal experience), and I suspect Infogrames will see the same thing when trying to get good frame rates.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
April 01, 2005, 04:53:50 PM #3
It sounds almost from your post ben that you are talking about them trying a game like that through scripts rather than Java which is a lot like C++ (OOP etc.) but maybe I just read that wrong.????
Godaigo
All's fair in Love and Brewing.
April 01, 2005, 11:04:29 PM #4
No, I mean OOP
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
April 03, 2005, 10:22:49 PM #5
Well admittedly I know nothing about Java, but why would it be so slow and crappy? Just curious!  ;D
Godaigo
All's fair in Love and Brewing.
April 04, 2005, 04:14:54 PM #6
First of all, I reread my posts and I would like to explain that I don't dislike Java.  In fact, it's a really cool idea.  However, Java is slower than, say C++, or any other such language, because C++ programs are designed for that hardware.

Java has to run on top of a software platform, not hardware.  So that means that data has to be run through two layers of software before it can really even get to the hardware: and in game programming, where speed is everything, I suspect Infogrames will run into problems.

Maya is an excellent program, and it really does show the awesomeness of Java, but the fact remains--and even Sun recognizes it, that Java is slower when comparisons are made between programs written w/out Java and the same programs written with it.  Some benchmarks show Java being three to five times slower than the same programs written in C++.

That being said, I believe Cobra is probably right in saying that Infogrames knows what they're doing.  If anybody can bring Java into gaming, it'll be them.  I don't think their project will end up "crappy," I just think it'll be tough for them, and it probably won't get as good of frame rates as other PC games. ;D
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
April 04, 2005, 04:16:51 PM #7
Actually, here:

http://mathsrv.ku-eichstaett.de/MGF/homes/grothmann/java/bench/Bench.html#Sieve

it says Java using Sun's bitset is 13x slower than the same program in C++.

(I think that they may have been trying to make Java look bad though) ;)
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
April 05, 2005, 04:51:23 PM #8
I guess that would make sense then!  ;D I've not been programming for anything other than fun for a few years so I haven't been keeping up and I've been forgetting what I once knew. Oh well..... wait what was I talking about....  ???
Godaigo
All's fair in Love and Brewing.
April 05, 2005, 05:10:24 PM #9
Whoa, I thought you're little quote thing at the bottom of your post said: "All's fair in Love and Breeding"

It creeped me out...
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
April 06, 2005, 05:25:39 PM #10
 ::) That would be a little creepy! But it actually refer's to the far more noble, if potentially less fun, act of brewing beer. Funny though how they tend to lead into each other...hmmm....
Godaigo
All's fair in Love and Brewing.
April 06, 2005, 06:17:57 PM #11
don't worry about the forgetting stuff...

I've coded off and on for the last 10 years or so, and I still can't seem to remember everything (which is funny because I code basically non-stop for the last year and some months).

"My Terminal is my Soul"
April 08, 2005, 06:11:13 PM #12
Yeah!  I forgot something once too... :D
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
July 12, 2005, 12:49:22 PM #13
I forget things all the time. ;)

To add my input to this convo, I think if Sun finally releases the Java source, then the open source community can start improving it (making it faster, more secure, etc). Until then, it is what Sun makes of it. I do agree that Java is slower. Even on a web application side of things. Especially when you pair it up with Oracle, good god. Its easy to make a bloated app with Java as far as I can tell if you dont watch your source carefully. As with any dev language yes, but still, I think it a little easier to do it with Java as you can get lazy and shortcut some stuff more so then with C.
"A well known hacker is a good hacker, an unknown hacker is a great hacker..."

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July 28, 2005, 07:25:29 AM #14
C++ ROCKS!!  DEATH TO ALL WHO OPPOSE!! >:(
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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